Tuesday, September 26, 2006

Whay are we there

The Ranter
The Views of The Ranter

I was recently asked to comment to the question of why we invaded Iraq, why we are still there and why are our military being killed. I have sent the reply and felt my comments strong enough to warrant publishing it on the site.

Ranter

Why are our men and women losing their lives over Iraq? That is a question of vast ethical and moral subject matter and perhaps even harder to comment to in any venue. If one was to Google the phrase, “Why did we invade Iraq” you will see 5, 160,000 hits to surf ones heart content. We must ask ourselves if that question cab possibly be answered through any of the sites. I sincerely doubt it and doubt it ever will from the ethical or moral view.

I do not feel anyone can effectively answer a question of that magnitude, Personally, l have yet to satisfy all of mine, yet here we are presently engaged in a war in which once again there appears to be no end in sight.

The technical and military view of the military basis of the invasion are openly available and understandable, once we have tossed aside the misinformation, untruths and preconceived notions, however, that too leaves a tremendous amount of questions.

As a veteran of one war, never declared but hard fought, I will attempt to offer any insight that I can.

Many individuals have felt that G.W. was simply attempting to resolve something left undone by his father and of course, this was media fueled until the ad nauseam. To understand the action still leaves many questions remaining.

There are those who constantly remind us the initial attack was in response to inaccurate human intelligence of WMD that some members of the intelligence circles had already dismissed. CIA Director George J. Tenet presented it to the President as factual and when asked if the intelligence was accurate it was reported he stated, “Mr. President, it is a slam dunk.”

Clearly, the events leading to the war are still open to interpatation, but the one fact remains. The people of Iraq were being tortured and murdered by the thousands; the Kurdish people had faced massive chemical weapons attack, mustard gas, leading to the deaths of unheard proportions. This event is now being addressed in the trial of Saddam. The sons of Saddam were also involved with deaths through their own sadistic treatment of human beings, Iraqi citizens.

Let us toss aside the entire question of the WMD that is the constant political buzz word for the upcoming elections, it certainly no longer matters, we are there, boots on the ground and now we must question why we did not depart.

The people of Iraq certainly more than deserved salvation from the terror of Saddam’s rule, as fellow human beings they certainly did not deserve the sadistic terror they were living under every waking and sleeping moment of their lives.

For no other reason except America and England were powerful enough to save thousands from death and additional thousands from torture and the knowledge we were the salvation of the people.

For no other reason than as human beings, we were morally obligated to attempt to save these people from the world of Saddam. For no other reason than that of providing safety for them would have been a basis to invade.

Herein lays the dilemma, yet answers the question of why we remain. We cannot withdraw forces now that they are committed. This would leave the country in a total state of chaos, confusion and the two warring sects, Shi’a and Sunni Arabs will destroy the entire country leaving the question of the events preceding the invasion never satisfied to anyone’s total satisfaction. In retrospect now that we are committed, the question of why actually no longer matters.

Yes, the Shi’a and Sunni are fighting one another and people are still being killed. Yes, we are losing military men and women, precious lives in a battle of faith that is not ours, but the situation would worsen should we depart. We are at least attempting to build their military and give them the capability to govern and protect.

Is the death of one military man or women worth what we are attempting to do for our fellow human beings? That is still the question at large and one that can never be answered if it is still within our hearts when the answers are in front of us.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

The reason we are in Iraq, AGAIN, is that the U.N. failed to do what it said it was goin to do, AGAIN !!

In Gulf War I, we got a glimpse of what Saddam's dreams were, and how big he dreamed.. Remember the Super Gun he had ??

This time around, even tho Intel was not the best, they DID GET A LOT of it right..

There is no tellin what was on all those semi-trucks that were sent to Syria, and Abu Nedal is a name no American should ever forget !! Salmon Pak was a site that was gonna be the next base for terrorist trainin after the Stan got put out of business, and it was right in Iraq !! There was a Who's Who list of terrorist leaders and attack architecs in Iraq and had already hashed an attack on Jordan that almost succeeded..

The U.N., France, and some even in The Parliment had already been bought and paid for and Sadaam was just waitin for his supply system to be set free again so he could get the supplies he needed to restart all his WMD programs..

But the "kicker" for me, is that we now have 140K+ Proud Warriors standin in the doorway of the Islamic Caliphate the Arhabi so much desire !! And as long as they are there, Syria, Iran, Al Q, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, the Muddahadeen, and all the rest of the Islamofascists are just gonna have to wait on their precious Caliphate !!

Just let me remind you that if there was a Caliphate in the Mid East, then there wouldnt be ONE STINKIN DROP of oil come out of there to the U.S. !! No oil ?? NO U.S. ECONOMY !! No U.S. Economy ?? No U.S. War Fightin Machine !! No Fightin Machine ?? WE ARE SCREWED, buy a prayer rug !!

Slick and the Hildebeast did have a comprehensive plan on Al Q and the Radicals, but just like the phones, the dishes, and the carpet, they stole it too when they left the White House !!
G.W. put a team on a report for HIM as soon as he took office in Jan. , and had just gotten it on Sept. 10 before 9-11.. He had only had 2 weeks to act on it when the WTC and the Pentagon was hit, and was STILL under unrelenting pressure from Al Gore and the ENTIRE LEFT for "stealin the election" !!

Sorry, but I'm gonna have to stop here cause I gotta go smoke a pork roast so I can cook a pot of beans.. But rest assured that I'll have more to say, if need be ..

Wild Bill

Anonymous said...

spot on birthday boy, I love yer succinctitty (geez, is tht a word?)
Yer on fire in yer logic. Agree.

Kilroy_60 said...

Ranter, I have no problem saying that I am the one with whom you had the email dialogue based on this post, Beyond Conceptual Terms, WHAT Is This About?!

I asked that you go beyond our email dialogue and write a comment specifically because there are people writing what appear to be thoughtful comments. I wanted you to have the opportunity to share your thoughts with anyone coming ot the posting.

I've triend to create a link to this post; Blogger Beta, unfortunately, is an uncooperative piece of shit.

There are viewpoints you share that I agree with without question. The point of my original query, though, has not been addressed.

I, for one, have not been swayed by the media's presenation of George W's attempt to clean up the unfinished work of his daddy. I felt at the time, and continue to believe today, that our stoppintg Operation Desert Storm - unfortunatley now known as Gulf War I, was a huge mistake.

Saddam at the time was committing atrocities against his own people. He had invaded another country. He was not a potential threat; he was actively engaged as a master of terror.

The world was with us at that time. One of the biggest mistakes we ever made was not continuing on to take out the Iraqi government right there and then. There were arguments that if we had the Arab nations would turn against us.

It seems to me that having them turn against us at that time when so many countries were involved would have been very minimal compared to now when, regardless of the minimal contribution being made by other countries, it is the United States of America that is the invader, the occupier and the one who is suggering the greatest loss of life.

Before anyone said anything about the younger Bush finishing the older Bush's work that was my view. I do not apologize for it; I still believe it is accurate.

Putting how did we get there aside - which is what any Bush II supporter wants to do as quickly as possible as we are getting screwed due to the agenda of one person - there is this issue of now that we're there...

Basically what I hear the President say, what I read here, is now that we are in Iraq we can't leave. We have started this, that and the other so we can't leave. We can't leave until there is success. I hate to be the lightbulb that lights up the picture ---- there is not a success we can achieve. The problems in Iraq must be solved diplomatically; not militarily.

I support the American military, the people on the ground. You have to admit,the situation, the needs of the people in Iraq is not unique. It is not the worst place in the world --- it was not the place in the greatest need in terms of the populace being repressed and terrorized by their government. Or a lack of any real government.

How is it that with all the problem spots in the world, places that were worse when we went into Iraq and still worse now, that it is Iraq where we have chosen to take this stand?

How is it that Afghanistan has seen 1/7 of the committment we made made in Iraq? Afghanistan was a direct result of 9/11. That is where we shouled have been and that is where we should be in full force now. We are losing the gains we made in Afghanistan because of Iraq.

Our military is doing the best they possibly can on the ground. Due to the Administration of George W. Bush, though, our country is being made a joke around the world as well as the target of hate. Increasing hate.

Iran...North Korea...the list goes on and on and on. The problems we have, the unabated pursuit of what we proclaim as being absolutely unaccepatble can not be addressed because we are hipdeep in camelshit in Iraq.

Years after Vietnam, Robert McNamara has come clean. Tapes of his conversations with President Johnson have been broadcast. Vietnam was wrong; blood was spilled and lives were taken --- because we were there and we couldn't leave. The government, the President wanted us to be there. That is not my opinion; that is proven by history.

Iraq is whack. Our military and our nation as a whole is being screwed by George W. Bush pursuing this military action for the same basic reason that is the basis of problems in the Mid-East. Bush is operating based on belief not facts. He believes we should be there and people who was to support him believe in his belief.

I am very appreciative that while we agree on some things and disagree on others that we are able to share links and engage in dialogue. All too often, actually the majority of the time, that seems not to be done. That's another issue which is a problem in our country --- that must be left for another day.

I will follow your lead and post our dialogue beyond this email you sent.

Anyone who wishes to weigh in, feel free to write a comment on the post at my site.

The Old Ranter said...

Really sorry you feel that way Kilroy, It is not a piece of shit unless it is read in that manner.

I did not comment as I did not have the time, as I said to you in an email. I wrote that from an open terminal as I was busy as heck.

So, I tossed an email, sent it to you and assumed you would take out what you wanted.

That IS my feelings, no less, no mre. Honesty, if you are uncertain then anyrthing I or anyone else says will not sway you. The events in Iraq is already done, boots on the ground. Why debate the obvious?

I do feel what I wrote. Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps Wild Bill is better to ask, how about it Bill, explain to Kilroy the war.

Ranter

The Old Ranter said...

One more thing Kilroy, if you want to hawk your site and ask people to post their comment there, don't do it here. This is not an advertising venue for other sites. I know that will tick you off, but it appears that is your motive.
Ranter

The Old Ranter said...

Kilroy, First, I owe you an apology. The darned beta sent me your comment, as I have all of them do, and it mutilated the darn thing. The way it came to me had you saying I wrote a piece of shit. Hence, I took off a little and I do humble myself for that.

I did not see it till I just logged into the dashboard. I have already sent a nastygram to the powers that be, quoting the truncated message and my replies to show them what it created.

I am going to send you a mail too, but wanted it public so you would know the validity of my attempt to eat crow. Smile

Again, I welcome open debate, but the beta created a horse of another color. Please ignore both my previous comments as they were as a result of the out of context post I was sent by the trash this presently is.

Ranter
RANTER

Anonymous said...

Kilroy, have you even noticed that there is anybody elses name connected between the 2 inncursions into Iraq besides BUSH ?? Let me give you a hint.. COLIN POWELL !! It was on his recommendation that GW I was halted.. After he saw how bad of a mistake it was, I thank he wanted to come back under G.W.'s Admistration and try to right that wrong..

And I thank you can just turn that light bulb back off too !! We have had SUCCESS since we set foot back into Iraq.. You must have missed my earlier post about Salmon Pak, and then there were the sarin labs in the North too, and oh yeah, the centrifuges that the scientists had buried in their back yards.. But the greatest achievement, in my mind, has been the blockage of the Caliphate.. And as far as diplomacy, that is a function of the Iraqi Government, since the problems there are more-or-less BETWEEN THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES !! And THAT is also the reason that Iraq takes 7X's the manpower than the Stan does..

And the problem with us gettin laughed at is over MONEY !! While we send MILLIONS and BILLIONS of U.S. Greenbacks to every snivelin little prick that can hold his hand out, our Military caint even afford Stick Horses for our Troops, let alone body armor, weapons and transportation !! BTW, did you enjoy the $ 115 Million (U.S. Taxpayer) Dollar rebuildin of the SuperDome down at "Babylon On The Mississippi" ?? We've also sent $30M to Hamas, and spent $50M on medical supplies and aid to MENDANAO !! Anybody have an idea what its gonna cost us to rebuild the military in Lebanon ?? And last I heard, we were still sendin about $50M A-FUGGIN-YEAR to Syria !! Yeah, they're laughin alright.. All the way to the gotdam bank.. Meanwhile, the Pentagon cut orders of F-35 Fighter and C-17 Cargo planes, and the Coast Guard is almost down to gotdam ROWBOATS !!
How come Congress dont mind gettin their pics taken when and are all smiles when we give money to some ferrin country, but start grabbin for the Nitro Tablets whenever we want to spend money on OUR Military ??

Wild Bill

Kilroy_60 said...

I have no issue with your comments, Ranter. They were written due to a Blogger screw-up.

You have the right to express whatever you feel and I accept that. I can say nothing which would cause nothing to be said. I don't think being silent is realistic for either of us. {laughing}

I'm not a blogwhore who goes out to buy visits or comments. It's nice having people visit and comment. It's not something I need, though. I do not need validation or approval of what I offer.

It always must be considered that there are Gonzo! aspects to my writing. That's something many people can not identify with, let alone understand.

I appreciated your email. There was no need to make this public. It was good of you to do. People will likely think me an asshole for one thing or another I've said anyway. I'm fine with that.

There's lots of work to do before my blogiversary rolls around at the end of October. I will look forward to you coming to visit and share your thoughts. God knows, I've been doing more than my share of that here.

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